Comments on: power and virtualisation http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/ yet another warped perspective Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:25:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: The Blog of Harald » smtp block http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-5399 The Blog of Harald » smtp block Wed, 15 Feb 2006 16:33:05 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-5399 [...] It figures. After doing a bunch of work to move my backup mailserver to a virtual server, it worked fine for about 10 days, and then suddenly I was seeing no incoming email in the logs. This is a sign of a problem; even when the primary server is working, spammers are always connecting to the backup (in the hopes of getting past filters). [...] […] It figures. After doing a bunch of work to move my backup mailserver to a virtual server, it worked fine for about 10 days, and then suddenly I was seeing no incoming email in the logs. This is a sign of a problem; even when the primary server is working, spammers are always connecting to the backup (in the hopes of getting past filters). […]

]]> By: Harald Koch http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-5136 Harald Koch Sun, 05 Feb 2006 15:43:46 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-5136 FWIW, I'm not terribly happy about our cheap electricity. Sure it means my bills are lower, but it also means that investors are not willing to build the new power plants that we need, because there's no profit in it. The doom-and-gloom people are predicting California-style rolling blackouts in a few years. It also makes alternate energy too expensive. For example, a personal solar power system in southern Ontario doesn't break even until hydro gets up to around $0.12/kWh, last time I checked. On the other hand, we're moving slowly to a competitive market. Commercial users (and distributors) already pay the floating market rate for electricity. Consumers still pay a fixed flat rate, and the province makes up the difference from general revenue. Anyway, at least for a while, electricity rates _dropped_; I just received a refund of the difference between what I paid and what the distributors paid for my electricity in 2004... FWIW, I’m not terribly happy about our cheap electricity. Sure it means my bills are lower, but it also means that investors are not willing to build the new power plants that we need, because there’s no profit in it. The doom-and-gloom people are predicting California-style rolling blackouts in a few years. It also makes alternate energy too expensive. For example, a personal solar power system in southern Ontario doesn’t break even until hydro gets up to around $0.12/kWh, last time I checked.

On the other hand, we’re moving slowly to a competitive market. Commercial users (and distributors) already pay the floating market rate for electricity. Consumers still pay a fixed flat rate, and the province makes up the difference from general revenue. Anyway, at least for a while, electricity rates dropped; I just received a refund of the difference between what I paid and what the distributors paid for my electricity in 2004…

]]> By: wjr http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-5115 wjr Sun, 05 Feb 2006 03:43:31 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-5115 Oh yeah - and $CDN0.08 per kWh? Argh. We pay about $US0.19. That's the marginal cost - the first 300ish per month are $US0.11, then the next 100ish are $US0.13, then it jumps to $US0.19. There are more brackets if you keep sucking down the power. Every marginal watt helps. Oh yeah – and $CDN0.08 per kWh? Argh. We pay about $US0.19. That’s the marginal cost – the first 300ish per month are $US0.11, then the next 100ish are $US0.13, then it jumps to $US0.19. There are more brackets if you keep sucking down the power. Every marginal watt helps.

]]> By: wjr http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-5114 wjr Sun, 05 Feb 2006 03:41:44 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-5114 The low-power always-on server is the approach we took - a VIA EPIA 800MHz processor (mini-ITX form factor motherboard), 120G disk. No display, keyboard or mouse - it just sits on a shelf. It's our mail host, it serves www.flopcat.org, and also is the Slimserver music server. Very nice. It's not fanless - there's no CPU fan, but there are two small case fans that run constantly. I tried running it with them off, but the internal temperature got higher than I'd like. I also tried getting the disk to spin down, but I couldn't stop it spinning up once an hour, which doesn't sound like much but most drives are only rated for 10000 spinup cycles... I'm guessing it's 25-30W constant draw. I also have one of the Linux-based WR54G routers acting as a firewall. The whole setup works nicely; once a week or two I back up the server's drive to my desktop machine. The low-power always-on server is the approach we took – a VIA EPIA 800MHz processor (mini-ITX form factor motherboard), 120G disk. No display, keyboard or mouse – it just sits on a shelf. It’s our mail host, it serves http://www.flopcat.org, and also is the Slimserver music server. Very nice. It’s not fanless – there’s no CPU fan, but there are two small case fans that run constantly. I tried running it with them off, but the internal temperature got higher than I’d like. I also tried getting the disk to spin down, but I couldn’t stop it spinning up once an hour, which doesn’t sound like much but most drives are only rated for 10000 spinup cycles… I’m guessing it’s 25-30W constant draw.

I also have one of the Linux-based WR54G routers acting as a firewall. The whole setup works nicely; once a week or two I back up the server’s drive to my desktop machine.

]]> By: Mark http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-5036 Mark Thu, 02 Feb 2006 02:25:33 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-5036 A typical 17 inch CRT consumes about 75W with a mostly white background, 65W with mostly black background and 0W in standby. A typical 15 inch flat panel consumes about 17 W. I was kind of shocked by the power consumption difference but the sticker price still keeps me away from LCDs. Ottawa City Hall rents out Kill-A-Watt devices so you can discover such trivia yourself. I'm in Toronto, so I just picked one up last time I was there for about $50 (ridiculously over priced but it's worth a bit of fun). A VIA 10000CL mini-itx system uses 35 Watts when idle, hovers around 38-41 W when web browsing and playing music, but under load, can spike to 53 W. Those are all instant readings, after 2hours 30m of light use the cumulative reading was 0.09 kWh. So 36 W average. EPIA Center's power simulator shows much lower numbers, 37 W peak and 23 W when idle (2.5 HDD and 40mm Fan EPIA CL10000). But the difference is likely because EPIA Center is quoting the consumption as measured post AC-DC conversion. My measurements are from the 113V wall socket. A typical 17 inch CRT consumes about 75W with a mostly white background,
65W with mostly black background and 0W in standby. A typical 15 inch flat panel
consumes about 17 W.
I was kind of shocked by the power consumption difference
but the sticker price still keeps me away from LCDs.

Ottawa City Hall rents out Kill-A-Watt devices so you can discover
such trivia yourself. I’m in Toronto, so I just picked one up last
time I was there for about $50 (ridiculously over priced but it’s worth a bit of fun).

A VIA 10000CL mini-itx system uses 35 Watts when idle, hovers around 38-41 W
when web browsing and playing music, but under load, can spike to 53 W.
Those are all instant readings, after 2hours 30m of light use the cumulative reading was 0.09 kWh. So 36 W average.

EPIA Center’s power simulator
shows much lower numbers, 37 W peak and 23 W when idle (2.5 HDD and 40mm Fan EPIA CL10000).
But the difference is likely because EPIA Center is quoting the consumption as measured post AC-DC conversion.
My measurements are from the 113V wall socket.

]]> By: Harald Koch http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-4961 Harald Koch Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:48:11 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-4961 Monitors appear to be energy pigs when in use, but use almost no power on standby. Since I rarely use the console on my servers, that wasn't an issue for me. Yes, LCDs are supposed to use a lot less power than CRTs. I found one site with some representative power readings; unfortunately, he doesn't give hardware details: "http://w9if.net/iweb/cpupower/":http://w9if.net/iweb/cpupower/. There's some good low-power hardware out there these days; Shuttle PCs were the first, but some people have been poo-pooing them lately. There's a whole site for VIA's "EPIA" Mini-ITX boards at "mini-itx.com":http://www.mini-itx.com/ ; I've read about people using both for MythTV boxes, so they have reasonable capacity with lower heat and lower power consumption. Monitors appear to be energy pigs when in use, but use almost no power on standby. Since I rarely use the console on my servers, that wasn’t an issue for me. Yes, LCDs are supposed to use a lot less power than CRTs.

I found one site with some representative power readings; unfortunately, he doesn’t give hardware details: http://w9if.net/iweb/cpupower/.

There’s some good low-power hardware out there these days; Shuttle PCs were the first, but some people have been poo-pooing them lately. There’s a whole site for VIA’s “EPIA” Mini-ITX boards at mini-itx.com ; I’ve read about people using both for MythTV boxes, so they have reasonable capacity with lower heat and lower power consumption.

]]> By: Reid http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-4958 Reid Mon, 30 Jan 2006 08:09:47 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-4958 I've been wondering about setting up a super-low-power (as in Watts) machine to be the only always-on server, effectively replacing both tnir (for web/email) and the G5 (for BitTorrent downloading). I am thinking of a hopefully cheap TransMeta chip or perhaps a Pentium M? Smaller, cooler, less power-consumptive would seem to be the watchword here. Of course, then there's the DSL modem, which is always on as well, but there's not much to be done about that. Are LCD monitors a lot lower power than recent CRTs? Or did all that Energy Star stuff actually make a difference? I’ve been wondering about setting up a super-low-power (as in Watts) machine to be the only always-on server, effectively replacing both tnir (for web/email) and the G5 (for BitTorrent downloading). I am thinking of a hopefully cheap TransMeta chip or perhaps a Pentium M?

Smaller, cooler, less power-consumptive would seem to be the watchword here. Of course, then there’s the DSL modem, which is always on as well, but there’s not much to be done about that.

Are LCD monitors a lot lower power than recent CRTs? Or did all that Energy Star stuff actually make a difference?

]]> By: Harald Koch http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-4956 Harald Koch Mon, 30 Jan 2006 02:26:29 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-4956 My computers are down around 75-100W under normal use. That 300W on the power supply is a maximum, not typical (but you knew that :-). Also, two of these machines are _old_, and only have 200W power supplies :-). Still, the ~ $20 / month adds up... More and more of our electricity is coming from natural gas, so I suspect that the gas - electric appliance tradeoff will swing back to gas soon. My computers are down around 75-100W under normal use. That 300W on the power supply is a maximum, not typical (but you knew that :). Also, two of these machines are old, and only have 200W power supplies :). Still, the ~ $20 / month adds up…

More and more of our electricity is coming from natural gas, so I suspect that the gas – electric appliance tradeoff will swing back to gas soon.

]]> By: Jeff K http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/archives/2006/01/29/power-and-virtualisation/#comment-4955 Jeff K Mon, 30 Jan 2006 02:06:32 +0000 http://blog.cfrq.net/chk/?p=813#comment-4955 Hm, 3 computers * 300W * 24h / 1000W/kW * 31 days * $0.08 kW/h = $53.50 / month. A bit high, I guess, but in the winter that power warms up the house a bit, saving on natural gas bills. I was surprised you didn't do that all with 1 computer. I used to have many more natural gas appliances than I do now, because the price of gas keeps going up. 16 years ago, my dryer and oven were gas -- for the last 7, I've been back on electric. I've been running CFL's for possibly 10 years. Anyway, my DVD habit of $60/week is where I should look to save money. Which reminds me, "The Island" is on HD pay-per-view in 20 minutes... Hm, 3 computers * 300W * 24h / 1000W/kW * 31 days * $0.08 kW/h = $53.50 / month. A bit high, I guess, but in the winter that power warms up the house a bit, saving on natural gas bills. I was surprised you didn’t do that all with 1 computer. I used to have many more natural gas appliances than I do now, because the price of gas keeps going up. 16 years ago, my dryer and oven were gas — for the last 7, I’ve been back on electric. I’ve been running CFL’s for possibly 10 years. Anyway, my DVD habit of $60/week is where I should look to save money. Which reminds me, “The Island” is on HD pay-per-view in 20 minutes…

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